Zanimljivo stivo.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Valent Vudriga
    CBC Senator XXL
    • 02.04.2005
    • 2778
    • USA

    Zanimljivo stivo.

    It is true that
    burning equal volumes of gasoline or diesel- Diesel will
    produce more CO2 as it has a higher ratio of Carbon to
    Hybdrogen than gas. However, when consumed in a Diesel the
    higher energy density of the fuel coupled with the thermal
    efficiencies of the Diesel engine will result in a net
    reduction of CO2 for the same amount of work done (or
    distance traveled) over a gasoline powered unit of same
    size/weight/drag, etc. Here ia an analysis done by Bosch
    which is a true "apple to apple" comparison. Bosch tested
    two Honda Accords, a gasoline unit with the 2 litre iVTEC
    and a 2.2 Litre Honda i-CTDi Diesel now being sold in
    Europe. The gas model produces 140 ft/lbs of torque and 155
    HP. The Diesel produces 250 ft/lbs torque and 140 HP. On
    the EU combined drive cycle, the Gas Accord consumes 8
    litres of fuel in 100km. (About 35 MPG) The Diesel only
    needs 5.5 L of fuel to go the same distance. (About 51
    mpg). This indicates an efficiency gain over the gas Accord
    of about 46%. To state this performance in terms of CO2
    emissions, the gas Accord produced 304 grams/mile of CO2.
    The Diesel produced 233 grams/mile. That is nearly 25% less
    CO2 emission even though, as you correctly pointed out, the
    Diesel fuel is laden with more Carbon the gasoline. Other
    makes were also analyzed with similar and consistent
    results.

    As for Biodiesel-- the energy equation for Biodiesel is
    generally accepted as 3.2/1 for Soy based fuel and 4/1 for
    Canola based fuel. This means that if I am operating a
    biodiesel production facility, every 1000 watts I invest in
    the process will yield 3200 watts of Soy Biodiesel or 4000
    watts of Canola Biodiesel. This is one of the best energy
    returns among the renewable fuels. It is far better than
    the (controversial) 1.4/1 ratio for Ethanol or the upside
    down energy ratios for Hydrogen and the synthetic
    gas-to-liquid coal based technologies. In addition, a
    gallon of biodiesel has only 7% less energy than a gallon
    of diesel. A gallon of Ethanol has 37% less energy than a
    gallon of gasoline. It is interesting to note that the
    automoakers are putting bigger gas tanks in their flex fuel
    vehicles so consumers can still drive the same distance per
    tank! Of course, they will pay the difference at the pump.

    Market studies: I am not reffering to Ricardo. Actually my
    data comes from J.D. Power and Synovate Motoreasearch who
    found better consumer acceptance of light duty clean
    Diesels and predict that light duty diesels will outsell
    Hybrids in the next 5-7 years. (Hybrids at 3% of sales,
    Diesel at 10%) By the way, the pollution problem from
    automobiles is, essentially, solved. Lots of things
    contribute to air pollution. It is not fair to blame dirty
    air on what comes out of the tailpipe of a late model
    automobile, regardless of its power train. Of the approx.
    5700 million metric tons of CO2 that the US economy pumps
    into the atmosphere every year, only 32% derive from
    transportation (Including air, sea, rail, autos & trucks).
    Saab demonstrated years ago that their Trionic engine
    management system actually produced cleaner "air" (less the
    O2) coming out the tailpipe than the ambient air found in
    downtown L.A.

    As for incentives for diesel/hybrids; you are correct in
    that they will be expensive. But it is possible that
    upcoming Carbob Emission laws will mandate or at least
    subsidize diesel/hybrids because this technology provides
    the greates amount of CO2 reduction.

    Without giving away the show, let me summarize where the
    industry is going: Emissions regulations, including
    restrictions on carbon output, are the primary drivers of
    vehicle design. Extensive aftertreatment systems are needed
    to get diesels clean enough to meet the essentially zero
    emission levels for NOx and PM. These aftertreatment system
    are expensive and require additional fuel to regenerate
    them. This creates cost and fuel penalties which could
    destroy the cost advantages that Diesels have always
    enjoyed, especially in the world of Heavy Duty. Thus the
    Diesel is in a fight for its life! Diesels have
    traditionally utilized a highly stratified combustion
    process. Gasoline has traditionally used a homogenous
    process. We will see a merging of technologies. Gasoline
    will move toward stratification and higher compression
    ratios. Diesels will move toward homogeneous mixtures and
    lower compression. in the meantime, synthetic fuels are
    being developed which may optimize a multi-phase combustion
    mode engine switching between stratified DI or HCCI as it
    moves from idle to part load to full load and back. The
    compression ratio may be in the neighborhood of 15/1 and
    possibly use a synthetically produced fuel low in carbon,
    no sulphur and other inorganics which will producing
    managable levels of emissions with low CO2. That is the
    master plan!
  • dieselman
    CBC Senator XXL
    • 14.11.2005
    • 833
    • tt

    #2
    ..sve je ovo tacno...narocito pojavom CR ubrizgavanja,dizeli su postali mnogo ozbiljniji...cak se i ja razmisljam o kupovini istog

    Comment

    • HotDog
      CBC Senator XXL
      • 06.05.2005
      • 965
      • BSG 75 (011)

      #3
      Re: Zanimljivo stivo.

      Originally posted by Valent Vudriga


      Saab demonstrated years ago that their Trionic engine
      management system actually produced cleaner "air" (less the
      O2) coming out the tailpipe than the ambient air found in
      downtown L.A.

      Comment

      • sw.brick
        CBC Senator XXL
        • 09.10.2004
        • 8141
        • Beograd, barajevo-zemun
        • volvo 945 SE turbo lpg, 340 GL lpg

        #4
        Diesels have
        traditionally utilized a highly stratified combustion
        process. Gasoline has traditionally used a homogenous
        process. We will see a merging of technologies. Gasoline
        will move toward stratification and higher compression
        ratios. Diesels will move toward homogeneous mixtures and
        lower compression
        zanimljivo svakako.

        ali, ?itaju?i sti?em utisak da je autor negde lokalno u SAD, bez uvida u dogadjaje u ostatku sveta što se ti?e tehnologije, i današnjih dometa.

        ovo što citiram, se ve? dogodilo u Evropi pre nekoliko godina, jedno 4-5 masovno.
        prakti?no sve novije konstrukcije motora bilo dizela bilo benzinaca u Evropi ve? su usvojile PM filtere , stepeni kompresije benzinaca su danas 12-14 :1, rade u stratified režimu ve? više od 10 godina.


        odavno je poznato da dizeli imaju manje CO2 po predjenom km, problem nije bio taj po kome je dizel motor bio na crnoj listi.

        sumporne kiše u Evropi su poznate još od 70tih i 80tih, austrijske šume su o?iti primer delovanja dizela.

        u Evropi je to rešeno uvodjenjem niskoskumpornih goriva kako dizela tako i benzina.

        PM problem dizela je rešen aktivnim filterima.


        možda je autoru teksta to promaklo, pošto pri?a o nekom budu?em vremenu.

        ali i pored o?itog truda autor nije krenuo dalje od opšteg novinarskog poimanja stvari, površnosti.

        koli?ina CO2 po milji nije baš relevantan podatak tehni?ki posmatrano. politi?ko marketinški to je ve? ustaljen pojam, neka "norma".

        tu mislim na ?injenicu da je osnova svega energija vs zagadjenje, dakle koli?ina CO2 po kWh energije bi bila mnogo univerzalnija i preciznija mera.

        ako se utroši manje kWh energije za pokretanje auta da predje tu 1 milju automatski se smanjuje apsolutna koli?ina CO2. pa ?ak i da je relativno zagadjenje motora veliko / tj ve?e.

        takodje, interesantno je da se pominju i neke manje ugodne ?injenice, poput etanola koji je baš dobar primer za malo pre navedeno normiranje zagadjenja.

        sa +37% ve?im utroškom apsolutno goriva za isti efekat, CO2 postaje vrlo upitan.

        pomenut je i vodonik, i njegova tipi?na osobina da je energetski negativan, a time i ve?i zagadjiva? u startu.

        jako se puno pri?a o zagadjenju od strane automobila a jako malo ili nimalo ( da ne kažem skriva se) o zagadjenju avio sektora.
        jedan avion zagadi toliko koliko desetine hiljada automobila.
        i avioni su daleko ve?i rizik po ozonski omota? nego sve klime i svi sprejevi sveta, pa nije u fokusu marketing politike.

        u Evropi 65% zagadjenja okoline sa CO2 nastane od potrošene energije za grejanje vode, i prostora tj ku?a i stanova.

        auto je u?esnik sa jedva 10tak %.


        i sada svi reflektori su usmereni na "glavnu" zvezdu zagadjenja a ono što je 6 puta ve?e zagadjenje se jedva osvetljava.

        politika forsira izmišljanjem eko normi formiranje ciklusa obrta, tako karakteri?sti?nog za kapitalisti?ke osnove.

        svakih 4-5 godina mora da se natera stanovništvo da zameni auto.
        u Evropi su eko norme, u Japanu su norme obavezne popravke motora svakih 3 godine (rasklapanje i sklapanje sa novim dihtunzima) koje su dovoljno skupe da _usmere_ narod na kupovinu novog.

        naterati ljude da svakih 5 godina zamene ku?e je malo teže marketingom progurati, ali i tu ima mašte.
        EU je naterala kompletnu zamenu gasnih kotlova, koja ?e se dešavati u narednim godinama.

        to jeste ekološki napredak, ali motiv nije ekološki pošto 3-4% napretka u ekologiji nije ništa naspram 60-90% mogu?eg napretka uvodjenjem nisko energetskih standarda gradjenja.

        i tako sada, zbog 4% ve?e efikasnosti kondenz kotlova pokre?e se ogromna industrija krozo novi ciklus.

        itd... ekologija se jako mnogo raubuje kao re? i pojam a interesi u pozadini ?esto nisu dobronamerni primarno ve? extra profiterski lepo prefarbani pri?ama.

        tamo gde je najprostija tehnologija je danas ujedno i najmanje apsolutno zagadjenje, konkretno Afrika.
        visoko razvijene zemlje su bez premca najve?i zagadjiva?i, pomalo ?udno logi?ki ako se zna da imaju najbolju tehnologiju, najviše znanja, najviše resursa, najviše mogu?nosti da ne bude tako...

        naravno politi?ari imaju neku svoju mantru, i kao i obi?no usmeravaju javnost da veruje i u neta?ne suštinski stvari.
        osipa se drvlje i kamenje po Kini a ona je još uvek mali zagadjiva? mereno prema SAD ili Evropi.

        mnogo se pri?alo o klimama i navodnom zagadjenju ali se malo pri?alo o licencnim pravima Du Pont firme na freon (R22) koja su isticala baš onda kada je puštena pri?a o "zlim" Kinezima putem mas medija.

        niti danas se ne pri?a o zakulisanim radnjama oko proizvodnje zamenskih mešavina, gde je gle ?uda opet Du Pont onaj koji drži kasu, i namerno ometa proizvodnju van svoja 3-4 pogona u svetu.
        primer kako ekologija lepo dodje za bajke a ispod maske leži ogromna lova.

        ja sam malo više osetljiv na razne marketinge, tj bajke ?esto.
        ne uvek, ali previše ?esto se masno laže.

        da se vratim na temu, da li je u SAD zakonom ili nekom obavezom uveden prelazak naftne industrije na nisko sumporna goriva, pre svega dizel ?
        volvo
        945 SE turbo lpg
        344 GL lpg

        Comment

        • Valent Vudriga
          CBC Senator XXL
          • 02.04.2005
          • 2778
          • USA

          #5
          Sumpor je reduciran s nekih 500ppm na 25-30 ppm, ako se dobro sjecam.
          Sad je pitanje dali ce evropski i japanski proizvodjaci poceti prodaju u USA. VW je bio obustavio prodaju dok se ne sredi situacija s gorivom. Sljedece godine, ako ne ove, bi trebali krenut ponovo.
          Vjerojatno ce biti spor proces. Mercedesov Sprinter se prodaje, nadam se da ce uvesti diesel u pick-up segment, narocito manji pick-up u kojem bi 4 cilindicni ili 5 cilindricni diesel bio vise nego dovoljno. Za sada samo V8 kod GM-a i Forda, te I6 kod Chryslera u kamionetima od pola tone pa na gore.

          Comment

          • sw.brick
            CBC Senator XXL
            • 09.10.2004
            • 8141
            • Beograd, barajevo-zemun
            • volvo 945 SE turbo lpg, 340 GL lpg

            #6
            obim love koji je u igri pri pominjanju CO2, gde je tu ekologija kao primarni motiv a gde profit itd...
            jedan od uglova gledanja.
            volvo
            945 SE turbo lpg
            344 GL lpg

            Comment

            Working...
            X