voltran - sekvent

[Dora]

Obzirom na količinu posla i premor posle toga nikako da se nakanem da napišem jedno emajlirano pismo gospodinu proizvodjaču uredjaja da ga priupitam neke stvari, tako da još uvek nemam odgovor jel to demo softver što imam a plaćen je 200 evra (tako mi liči). Na sajtu je interface sasvim drugog broja od ovoga što sam dobio, čuj dobio...
Uf napisah roman i obrisao, aj sačekajte taj emajl

[TAZZ]

Doktore...
Voltran i SAAB..?
Kakva je kombinacija...???
S obzirom da mi ide auto na jedno 235-285 KS...
Da li staviti Taj Voltran...?

[Dora]

Jel ti prno slon u uvo, sačekaj

[Gumetina]

Imam osecaj da ce sledeci Doktorov posto u vezi sa ovim biti strasno sveobuhvatan



voltran user.....

[Dora]

Potseti me... Idem da emajliram lončić

[TAZZ]

Jel ti prno slon u uvo, sačekaj

Pa ja sam malko ne strpljiv...

Ako sredim AVTO kako cu da se vozam jeftino..???

[Dora]

Daklem, emajlirali smo jedan telegram prema podrški i dobili odgovor.
Iznete su zamerke na kvalitet materijala, završnu obradu i funkcionalnost uredjaja, dokumentovano slikama.

Odgovor je bio korektan i dobronameran. Voltran je danas završio karijeru u Alfi tako da je vraćen odakle je i kupljen a pare su takodje vraćene. Izgubljeni dani nisu uračunati ali nekad mora biti i kupusa, nije sve meso.

Firma iz Kragujevca kod koje je kupljeno je zastupnik za Voltran, tako se deklarišu i rečeno mi je da nemam pojma oko štelbanja, ne baš tako ali da ne znam i da taj uredjaj radi lepo svima samo ja nešto zakeram a u stvari ipak nemam pojma.

Pošto nemam pojma nisam ulazio u dalju stručnu analizu uredjaja i prihvatio sam da nemam pojma da se ne bi raspravljao dalje a ne bi imalo nikakve svrhe.
Sve je bilo ipak korektno, vrati uredjaj dobićeš pare. Vratio uredjaj i dobio pare.

Ono što me je zainteresovalo je da je taj uredjaj visoko kotiran u Engleskoj i da ga po nemaćkim forumima hvale. Vodjena je prepiska ranije i u njoj je bilo nekih elemenata u softveru i mogućnostima hardvera koje su bile primamljive.
kad je momčad istrčala na teren ispostavilo se da malo hramlju, neki su gluvi a ni orijentacija na terenu nije baš najbolja.

sledi pitanje i odgovor. Malo je tarzanski engleski ali sporazumeli smo se što je bitno...


Citat pitanja i odgovora......

----- Original Message -----
From: Dora
To: Voltran Autogas Equipment
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: courier cost


Greetings,



Few months ago we had a conversation over the e-mail about trading of Your equipment on our market. You have sent me the pricelist that I have recived and reviewed. In the meantime I found a firm from Kragujevac (http://www.srbijamarket.com/yuStoritve/ ... =lovato-kg ) an importer of Voltran LPG equipment and seller of V-SGI kit?s for 350EUR per kit. For that reason I dismissed my request for parts I ordered before, because the price was higher than the price form that firm in Kragujevac.

Altrough I was very interested for Voltran , I bought two V-SGI kits of that firm and installed them both. One on our car Alfa Romeo 156 1.8 TS http://www.cannonballforums.se/viewtopi ... 574#173574 and the other one on Jugo 55 EFI MPI. With the kits we also purchased interface for 200EUR with its software that was only on Turkish language., but with help of a translator and a huge experience in sequential injection systems we menaged to somehow install and adjust both cars. (In attachment I send you pictures of the software, interface and some parts of the equipment)



I decided to purchase equipment after You convinced me in the abilities of the system and from some forums in England and Germany where the Voltran V-Sgi I very well rated.

I would appreciate if you explain to me some unknowns about the equipment , and if possible to give me installing and adjusting instructions in English.

Our service www.autogas.rs is widely famous about our installations and the quality of equipment installed in our shop, not only in Serbia, but in the countries in the surrounding and even in Europe. We also run forum for Auto Gas www.cannonballforums.se where I posted pictures of our Alfa Romeo with Voltran V-SGI sequential injection system that caused many replies and questions about the system because the price that was promised was much lower from other concurent producers.

Now I am in a situation where I don?t know what to tell , the situation is much unpleasant, because system is obviously not working correctly , and the questions how? , when? and how much? are asked again ang again.

We were not sure about the adjustments because of the software, so we didn?t give any final toughts about the Voltran V-Sgi System. That?s why I ask You to patiently review our photos and description of the problems, and tell us if that is Your genuine product (not fake) or the problem is somewhere else.

Public interest in your systems is huge and any help from You is precious.

The connection between LPG ECU and the computer is very hardly achived over the interface (can bus), sometimes it takes several computer restarts to work.

Vapourizer pressure is over 2 BAR , and to adjust it to correct 1.2 BAR the spring in the vapourizer needs to be shorten for about 2mm and also to unscrew the nut for pressure adjustment to the limit of falling out.

We do not know if the software version we have is not DEMO.

LPG solenoid valve is full of metal scraps from drilling so it makes the hose nut impossible to screw in (in both of the sets we bought).

The sealing gum in the solenoid valve on the vapourizer gets deformed after few days and closes the flow completely. I was forced to shorten the valve piston to unblock the flow of lpg.

Injectors changed their flow rate, so after few days we had to take them off and readjust them again to retrieve the old flow back.

Whole system changes in a few days period, so the readjustment of the whole system is needed. (maybe there is a new firmware for the ecu?)

LPG distribution block is made of very thin plastic and the closing nut leaks so we had to glue it to prevent further leaking.

The switch with the level indicator is made of thin plastic not resistant to sunlight and deformed immideatly. It broke apart.

Etc?

If You are not able to provide me English software and instructions, please explain to me what are the software options Set 2, 3, 4?

Is there any option for start autocallibration or I must load whole finished map. If it is necessary to load a map, is there any way to let me in the members area to download the maps if thera are any?

How would our car work with Your system V-SGI if it was turbocharged, because we intend to upgrade our alfa with one.



Thanks for Your patiance and eventual answers,

Regards,

Zoran Doroslovac

-----------------------

Odgovor.....


---- Original Message -----
From: VOLTRAN
To: Dora
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: courier cost


Dear Sir,

Thanks for your e-mail and interest in our products.

We have English software and technical support. We can send you our English software and manual by courier.

We used to sell our Vogas SGI kits to our foreign customers in Europe. Because that has more professional ECU and software than V-SGI. However our Serbian customer used to buy our V-SGI kits because of low price advantage. If we work with you soon, we definitely recommend you our Vogas SGI instead of V-SGI.

We were also planning to send us engineers to Serbia on November. They can also visit you for problem solving.

You may find your reply a follows;

- You do not need to restart computer. If you the pc could not found the CAN, you can stop the engine, take off the CAN plug (USB) from the computer and wait for a while. If the computer can find the CAN device, you can start the engine and run the V-SGI software. If it fails again, please inform us.

- We need to send you new reducer. That is related with the lever inside of the reducer. The new reducers have stronger lever.Please inform us how many SGI kits you bought.

- Please find attached English manual.

- We had same complaint with the LPG valves since 2 months. Finally our quality control department took some measures to ensure the quality of LPG valves.

- We can send you new seal for short term. As a long term solution, we will put that valve just before the reducer.

- When you mentioned that "Injectors changed their flow rate, so after few days we had to take them off and readjust them again to retrieve the old flow back.", I think that problem is related with the changing pressure of reducer. That cause problems for the injectors. So if we change the reducers, you will have less problems with injector flow rates. Please do not open the injectors because after you open you cannot adjust without testing it with air.

- We are aware of the problem with the cover of plastic rail. For now you can put some Loctite or glue till we make a new cover for them.

- We are aware of the problem with the indicator plastic of changeover switch. We are now using stronger material.

If you request technical support on the phone, please inform us your number. So that on of oyur engineer gets in touch with you.

Waiting for your reply,


Best Regards,

Cenk Akyurek
Area Manager

[ada]

zasto je moj komentar ovde obrisan???

[Dora]

Kad, koji?

[ada]

malo pre! nije bitno! u sustini slab sam sa engleskim! ne kontam sta je hteo turcin da kaze????

[Dora]

Ukratko..
Imali su problem sa proizvodnjom ventila ali su rešili. Imali su problem sa prekidačem kojeg pojede sunce, upotrebiće bolji materijal. Rade na rešavanju curenja gasa na razdelniku sa filterom, dotle malo locita pomaže. Loša je opruga na isparivaču poslaće mi novu. poslao mi je uputstvo na engleskom . Poslaće mi dva nova isparivača i ako mi zatreba tehnička pomoć da se obratim.
U pitanju su dva uredjaja, jedan za evropu drugi za nas i slične. Ovi što uvoze uzimaju te jeftinije što sam ja kasnije skapirao jer je sajt voltrana promenjen nekoliko dana kasnije posle kupovine.
Da ne diram dizne jer nemam čime da ih naštelujem kasnije što je tačno ali i nije jer je napravljena mašina za štelbanje, ima je Galileo. kako da ih nediram kad nema ništa protoka kroz njih (moja napomena).
I tako to ....

Uglavnom, nisam se skoro sreo sa lošijim uredjajem. Kad bolje razmislim ne verujem da od ovog može biti nešto lošije. U pitanju je V-Sgi po tvrdnji iz maila namenjen za jeftina tržišta i nezahtevne korisnike.
Po pitanju prodavca sve to radi samo ja nemam pojma

[sw.brick]

Doro koliko ja vidim smisao teksta koji je poslao gospodin iz Voltrana, to sto si ti kupio (uvalili ti) je neki stari proizvod koji Voltran vise i ne nudi, odnosno fakticki je napusten u korist novo razvijenog modela (gde su navedene primedbe ispravljene).

ono sto je covek pokusao da ti objasni je da za taj stari uredjaj nema vise podrske osim na nacin da ti posalje (besplatno) one delove koji su se pokvarili kao znak dobre volje.

nisam video uzivo taj Voltran sto ti imas, procitao sam ponesto iskustava iz Nemacke kako vlasnika tako i instalatera i ovaj -noviji- Voltranov sistem (koji se pominje u mailu kao uredjaj koji se jedini i prodaje u Evropi) je po svima njima sasvim adekvatan i cak stavise jako dobro ocenjen bas po mogucnostima softvera i po kvalitetu istoga.

recimo, pominje se opcija za turbo motore da pri punom gasu se istovremeno dozira i benzin i LPG da bi se poboljsao odziv i da je to programabilno za svaki motor odnosno po zelji.

ne zelim da branim Voltran niti se mesam nista dalje od ovoga samo sam stekao utisak da ti ne baratas sa pravim Voltran uredjajem koji je danas aktuelan za ugradnju i da odatle poticu problemi.

mnogo bi bilo cudno da onoliki automobili po Evropi (gde su i kriterijumi za LPG malo jaci nego kod nas u smislu ocekivanja kvaliteta) rade korektno i bez problema kako oni kazu a tebi od 2 pokusaja ugradnje nijedan ne uspe i to na 2 sasvim razlicita i ne posebno zahtevna automobila (hocu da kazem atmosferci)...barem meni se postavljaju dodatna pitanja.

pogotovu ako kako kazes je cena ovde u Srbiji sa carinom manja od fabricke cene to ukazuje da nesto debelo nije u redu, vec samo po sebi.

ako mogu da ti pomognem, kada se vec nude iz Voltrana prihvati susret sa inzenjerom koji treba da dodje u novembru, ako mozes investiraj u probni primerak euro modela (tog novijeg) a mozda bi dobio i na revers (pitaj, ne kosta) ili uz depozit za sistem koji ima tehnicku podrsku i koji je ocito korak dalje otisao u razvoju u odnosu na to sto si imao.

pri tome ja bih zaobisao u sirokom luku domaceg ponudjaca, i njegov (ne)profesionalni odnos podrske.

to je ako se ja pitam

[dranix]

Eh, da nekim ljudima nije najteza stvar u zivotu da budu korektni.
Mislim na dealera iz KG.
Pitam se samo kolika ce biti konacna cena seta kad se budi otklonili nedostaci. 200 eura vise?

[TAZZ]

@ Brick...

Eto...!!! TURBO I NOS(LPG)+BENZIN ...
To mi se svidja

[sw.brick]

ako hoces link (javi se) pa citaj, ima nasiroko o tome.
ima generalno o LPG-u, motortalk.de citav niz foruma pa uz pretragu ima svega.

sve je na nemackom.

mene to nije zanimalo ali kada sam se vec zatekao tu ajde da saznam i nesto o tome.

mene je zaintrigirao ICOM koji je ovde pomenut i koji je detaljno obradjen na pomenutim nemackim forumima.

ono sto sam saznao je da je ICOM u osnovi bio proizvodjac toro boca, da su osmislili svoj sistem tecnog ubrizgavanja LPGa nalik Vialle i da jos uvek postoji precest problem crkavanja sistema (kao i kod Vialle) odnosno pumpi LPGa.

ICOM i Vialle imaju zajednickog dobavljaca, odnosno sistem je zapravo poljski a ove firme ga marketinski obradjuju u svojim zemljama.

nasao sam i varijante prepravki tog sistema upotrebom americkih Walbro pumpi za benzin koje su izgleda daleko otpornije (kvalitetnije izradjene) i duze traju.

pomenuto je i da su najavljene za ovu jesen-zimu (kao modna sezona ) LPI sistemi drugih vecih evropskih LPG proizvodjaca odnosno napustanje tzv sekvencijalnog ubrizgavanja gasovitog gasa u skoroj buducnosti i prelazak na tecno ubrizgavanje pri cemu nestaje potreba za dodatni ECU LPGa vec se koristi potpuno fabricka mapa i svi fabricki senzori.

procitao i da LPG nije za korejske i japanse automobile i za novije evropske bas pogodan zbog sedista ventila. u to je ubrojen i Volvo sa motorima od modelske 2005godine gde su namerno oslabili glave motora u standardnoj ponudi a one standardne (ojacane kojima ne smeta LPG) otporne na povisenu temperaturu se sada prodaju u modelima tzv eko odnosno koji mogu da koriste i etanol odnosno E85 gorivo.

i naravno doplacuje se.

pomenuta je i Honda da se ne preporucuje ugradnja LPGa, za nove modele koji se prodaju u Nemackoj iz slicnih razloga.

slutim da se crno pise u vezi LPGa, jos jedna masovnija eko "prevara" kao ona sa uvodjenjem bezolovnog (u kome je bilo olova sve do 2005te godine samo umanjene kolicine) tamo negde sredinom 80tih i skokom cena auta. barem tamo kod njih mi lici da su novi modeli motora losiji po otpornosti odnosno da treba da se doplati da bi ostalo kao ranije.


procitao tako, koliko platio toliko prodao.

na drugom mestu sam procitao da u SAD krece prodaja LPI sistema lokalne americke ponude (pretpostavljam da je kineske proizvodnje sa americkim kapitalom) i ocekuje/predvidja se u narednim godinama masovan histerican prelazak sa benzina na LPG (posto dizela prakticno nema u SAD a da iole valja po kvalitetu da bi se mogao koristiti u CR motorima).
isti izvor pominje i najavu otvaranja LPG tocionica od strane velikih americkih sestara kao pripremu.

kako je to mozda spisak zelja ko zna sta ce biti, ali da nekog pomeranja u SAD mora biti jasno je s obzirom na cene postojecih goriva i znacaj auta tamo.

nadam se da ce promena ka usvajanju LPG dovesti do masovnije produkcije a time i paaaada cena opreme

PS. nista nisam proveravao u smislu tacnosti da se neko ne uhvati za svako slovo.