Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

[Vocko]

Da budem precizan...

It appears as though Mazda will offer its RX-8 sports car with a rotary engine in the future and as the all-new second generation model is just around the corner, the Japanese automaker has been busy making improvements to the pistonless wonder.

Last October Mazda filed for a patent with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for a new twin-spark, direct-injection rotary engine, which was approved last month.

According to the patent it’s possible the new motor will be of a slightly larger displacement and we expect a little extra power. The new twin-spark direct-injection system should also help in the power department, although its main benefit will be in terms of fuel-economy.

Vise informacija na izvoru - http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009 ... ngine.html

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Treba uočiti pozicije u**** i izduva (11 i 10 na slici) postavljenih na bočnom zidu cilindra. Naime, u ranijoj koncepciji postojalo je vreme za koje su i usis i izduv bili u ''kontaktu'' sa istom stranom rotora pa je deo izduvnih gasova ostajao u cilindru. Da bi se obezbedilo sagorevanje bilo je neophodno uvoditi ''bogatiju'' smesu goriva i vazduha (manji odnos vazduh/gorivo) te otuda i povećana potrošnja. Ovaj sistem bi mogao uveliko da umanji potrošnju goriva.

[RedboX]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Zanima me ako je izduv i usis na strani od cilindra kako je reseno da se vise cilindara spoji jedan do drugog kao sto su do sada radili?

[X9]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

apsolutno je svejedno na kojoj je strani usis i izduv...chak moze da bude posto se ovde ne vidi jer je prikaz u 2D da je izduv na kontra strani komore sagorevanja(a ne cilindra toga nema u Wankelu )...ne brini se ti reseno je to sve vec..RX9 ili RX7 dolazi sa tim motorom najverovatnije

[RedboX]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

znas kako je ako cu da kupim moram da se raspitam

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Na ovoj ''slici'' se lepo vide pozicije u**** i izduva, kako na samom bočnom zidu tako i dovod/odvod unutar bočnog zida (nacrtano tačkastim linijama). Kako je ovde prikazana samo jedna komora, jer je to osnov patenta, ovde se lepo vidi i smer rotacije i pozicije svećica na različitim udaljenostima od ose komore. To me navodi na malu sumnju u ovo što je u članku izneto oko povećanja zapremine. Wankel motor je matematičko-geometrijsko čudo kod koga se sve vrti oko odnosa dužine stranice rotora i njene širine. Da bi se povećala zapremina jedne komore potrebno je ili srazmerno povećati sve dimenzije, zadržavajući odnos dužine i širine stranice rotora, što sa sobom donosi mnogo ispitivanja (ponašanja smese unutar komore, brzine i pravci sagorevanja, količine zaostalih izduvnih gasova za unutrašnju recirkulaciju, odnosa vazduh-gorivo u smesi ...) ili promeniti odnos dužine i širine stranice rotora što sa sobom povlači nove proračune i ispitivanja (nova optimalna pozicija svećica, pozicija i ugao injectora itd.). Verovatnije je da će zapremina cilindra ostati ista/bliska staroj a da će biti izvršena promena odnosa dužine i sirine stranice rotora u korist dužine jer to omogućava duže sagorevanje od trenutka paljenja do trenutka kada se dva plamena susretnu (trenutak od kog širenje usled sagorevanja naglo gubi na snazi). To bi trebalo da bude moguće obzirom da ovom novom postavkom u**** i izduva se dobija smesa bogatija vazduhom te je moguće/potrebno povećati vreme sagorevanja. Ne bi trebalo biti isuviše komplikovano osmisliti pozicije u**** i izduva kod višekomornih motora. Ali dosta je bilo pametovanja sa moje strane, ima ko je (debelo) plaćen da o tome ''lupa glavu''.

Inače veliko izvinjenje za ''cilindar''. Bilo je prilično kasno/rano kada sam pisao prethodni post.

[X9]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

jos od ranije su oni kombinovali sa povecanom zapreminom komore sagorevanja,tako da to nije problem..i ne treba verovati svemu sto novine pisu
ajd dacu ti jedan tipogledaj udubljenja na rotorima ovde i na nekom drugom wankelu-sa tim udubljenjima (njihovim oblikom i velichinom) se izmedju ostalog regulishe pravac i brzina paljenja smese ...videces i sam razliku,to je jedno od mesta gde se dobija na kubikazi,osim toga u Mazdinom slucaju nije se nikada islo na neka extremna povecanja kubikaze..pogledaj temu o Wankelu mislim da neces neke velike razlike pronaci
lep link za procitati:

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Slažem se po pitanju uticaja udubljenja na zapreminu. Jedino što je dubina udubljenja projektovana prema potrebnom sagorevanju a promena zapremine je tu samo posledica. Ukoliko je promena zapremine ono što se želi postići ići će na jedan od dva načina koja sam već (donekle) opisao.

[RedboX]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Evo prave slike sad je jasnije gde ide izduv a ne da ja strepim da mi se ne mesaju gasovi

[X9]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

znachi ipak je na obe strane izduv

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Jeste, a i usis.

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Navuče me Voćko na ovu temu. Izgubih oči čitajući ovaj podnesak patenta na Autoguide-u. U osnovi Mazda je patentirala modifikaciju već postojećeg Renesis motora. Očigledna razlika je uvođenje direktnog ubrizgavanja (kod Rene**** je ubrizgavanje izvedeno u usisu), te usled toga i promene u odnosima dužine i širine stranice rotora, kao i standardizovanje svih ostalih dimenzija vezanih za ove dve mere i njihov odnos. Sve je odrađeno u cilju povećanja odnosa vazduh gorivo, a zbog smanjenja potrošnje i dostizanja budućih ekoloških normi. Nigde nisam primetio pominjanje povećanja zapremine komore, mada sa ovako detaljno razrađenim odnosima ne bi trebalo biti teško projektovati komoru veće zapremine. Limit je činjenica da što je veća dužina stranice rotora to je niži limit broja obrtaja, a što je veća širina rotora to je sagorevanje nepovoljnije i ponovo se ulazi u problem povećane potrošnje i sastava izduvnih gasova. Stoga ako i dođe do povećanja radne zapremine komore, to će biti neznatno. Jedino je evidentno da će novi motor imati veću snagu po rotoru uz korišćenje siromašnije smese vazduh gorivo. U svakom slučaju zadivljen sam do koje mere su inženjeri Mazde usavršili koncept rotacionog motora.

[Vocko]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Dosta toga o samom motoru - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine ; http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/about/

Sto se tice povecanja zapremine, ne mogu nigde da nadjem link, ali znam da se spominjalo povecanje kubikaze za nekih 300ccm... Nastavljam da trazim


edit:

Next Generation Renesis (Rotary Engine 16X) In developing the next-generation Renesis, Mazda made a thoroughgoing revision of engine dimensions including the trochoid rotor housing, adopting a longer stroke and larger displacement of 1600cc (800cc x 2) aimed to raise thermal efficiency and boost torque at all engine speeds. By employing the Hydrogen RE design policy of a direct injection system and aluminum side housing, as well as various other measures, we are further promoting the rotary engine’s merits of light weight and compact size.

edit2:

Tokyo Auto Show - Sept. 17, 2007
Mazda will show off next generation Rotary Engine technology, including a larger rotary, the first time the actual displacement of a 2 rotor engine will have changed since 1974 if it makes production. The last time a production engine increased was with the introduction of the 13b in the RX-4 and REPU in 1974. The engine will also be the first time the other dimensions of the rotor will have changed since the 13a in the 1971. The 13a was the engine that powered the front-wheel-drive Japanese only Luce.

The car shown is said to have clues from the Kabura and Ryuga, as well as other Mazda DNA. It will be the first all new Mazda Rotary Coupe since the third-generation RX-7 launched in 1991. The car is said to have a particularly distinctive exterior design, with lightweight, compact and high-output next generation RENESIS(2) rotary engine. It will epitomize Mazda's spirit of sports car, as the RX-7 won popularity among the customers since its 1978 launch. The last RX-7 model (FD3S) ended a 10 year production run in August 2002, and is sometimes still regarded as the pinnacle of Mazda Engineering and Design.

--------------------------------

Next Generation RENESIS (Rotary Engine 16X)
Mazda is celebrating 40 years of rotary engine development since the introduction of the rotary engine Cosmo Sport in 1967. To mark the occasion, we have begun development of the direct injection 16X, a 1600 cc (800 cc x 2) powerplant with a new trochoid chamber shape aimed at further improving thermal efficiency and boosting torque at all engine speeds. The 16X is made possible through the experience and technology gained with RENESIS, a unit featuring side exhaust ports and other features that greatly advanced the rotary engine.

All-round change of dimensions
With the next-generation RENESIS, Mazda has changed the cocoon shape of the trochoid rotor housing. This marks a further evolution of the basic structure of the engine which began with an early period of over seven years spent researching the optimum trochoid shape, from the introduction of the first 10A (491cc x 2) in 1967, followed by the 13A (655cc x 2), 12A (573cc x 2) and the current 13B (654cc x 2). This shape change is brought about by reducing the rotor housing width and housing thickness while increasing the trochoid outline, resulting in a displacement increase to 800 cc x 2. But despite this dimensional increase, we were able to keep the engine itself essentially as compact and lightweight as the current RENESIS.

As for its specific shape, increasing the trochoid radius and eccentricity and reducing rotor housing width achieved a longer stroke, thereby shrinking the combustion chamber aspect ratio. Due to this modification, the surface area-to-volume ratio of the combustion chamber decreases, enabling a reduction in cooling losses. Also, since the very tight space in the combustion chamber is reduced, flame growth is promoted and the engine exhibits faster combustion and better fuel economy. As well as improving fuel economy-an essential part of environmental performance-we are simultaneously pursuing higher torque at all engine speeds.

Direct injection technology
The next-generation RENESIS is the first gasoline rotary engine developed to use direct fuel injection. The system inherits the basic design concept of the hydrogen rotary engine, injecting gasoline in a high-pressure spray during the intake cycle, promoting atomization and vaporization of fuel and the formation of a stable air-fuel mixture. The latent heat of fuel vaporization lowers the temperature of the air-fuel mixture, thus raising the engine’s charging efficiency. At the same time, it reduces fuel adhesion to the chamber wall, which has been a problem of the conventional port injection system, while promoting a more homogenous air-fuel mixture. This in turn leads to substantially improved thermal efficiency and increased torque, and Mazda is actively researching further improvements in efficiency.

Aluminum side housing
In developing the new engine, Mazda engineers have dramatically improved both power output and environmental efficiency. They have also contributed to further increases in fuel-economy and driving performance by lightening the vehicle weight. By keeping the engine’s exterior dimensions about the same as the current RENESIS, which allows more of the vehicle’s volume to be devoted to passenger space, and by using an aluminum side housing aiming at lighter weight than the current RENESIS along with various other measures, Mazda continues to advance the merits of the compact and lightweight rotary engine.



Difference in the 16x and 13b rotors

edit3:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=705641

edit4: cybland odlicna analiza i zakljucak

[cybland]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

Hvala Voćko na ovim informacijama. Sada sam još više zadivljen.

[X9]

Re: Podnesen patent za "novi" Wankel

opa ..ako ja to dobro vidim pa oni ce da furaju 4 injektora za gorivo ili se varam?jedan u usisnom kanalu i jedan u komori-nesto poput lexus-ovog sistema...ako sam ja to dobro video