Muscle-nekada i sada

[sw.brick]

hm, fina tema
marketing je cudo...prikazani zadnji pogon na Corveti uopste nije zastareo, cak stavise vrlo cesto se koristi takav tip osovine na mnogim FWD autima u milionskim serijama i dokazano (kroz decenije primene) omogucava jako dobar "roadholding" sto je vec receno.

kao najveca opste poznata mana je moguca neudobnost pri voznji jako losim putevima a to onda i nije bas jak argument pored svih ostalih nedaca u takvoj primeni.

americki auti mozda nisu lepi, sto je subjektivno i nemerljivo a ono sto imaju je dobra baza, inzerenjerski obradjena konstrukcija koja omogucava pouzdanu upotrebu auta vrlo dobrih perfomansi (prema zeljenom cilju primene auta) a uz to jednostavna i time jeftina za masonu proizvodnju.
i kasnije jeftino odrzavanje.
a pun paket opreme nudi komfornu voznju najviseg nivoa.
e sad, veliki motori, benzin i euro uslovi bas i ne ide zajedno po sadasnjim cenama

sve u svemu, nice cars

[206]

...prikazani zadnji pogon na Corveti uopste nije zastareo, cak stavise vrlo cesto se koristi takav tip osovine na mnogim FWD autima u milionskim serijama i dokazano (kroz decenije primene) omogucava jako dobar "roadholding" sto je vec receno.

...na idealno ravnim putevima. Naleti na rupu i ima da bude "livadaholding", to je jednostavno tako...Drzi dok ima ravnog asfalta, kad ga vise nema i krene sa neravninama, makar malim, i tu je kraj price, tehnolosko resenje je jednostavno tako, cista fizika tako diktira, tako je i u praksi, i gotova stvar. Usavrsen traktor i dalje ostaje traktor.

[HEMI 426]

@Skyline GT-R

respect za tebe prijatelju, ali kako mozes biti ozbiljan poznavalac ako se palis na japanske automobile ( pobogu ! ), mislim, kakva je to auto industrija kada je jedan small block V8 u upotrebi duze nego sto oni prave automobile...

[luci]

@ skyline
ja postujem tvoje misljenje ali je jako nekulturno sa tvoje strane to sto radis i dokazujes da je srbin uvek srbin........... nemoj da dolazis ovde ako ti se ne svidja ono sto se pise

a usput ja kao nepristrasan imam veoma povoljne "recenzije" narocito nove Corvette... inace od 0 do 175 mph joj mozda treba jedna milja ako je ubrzanje iz 5 e brzine sto mogu da potkrepim i video zapisom


plus pricajmo o dizajnu japanci pre recimo 1995 izgledaju kao da ih je dizajnirala zastava

[Horsepower]

Jedino si zaboravio da ces sada sebi na ledja da natovaris Horsepower-a sa sve pikapovima sto je i meni tesko da citam.

Ain't gonna happen.

[sw.brick]

...Drzi dok ima ravnog asfalta, kad ga vise nema i krene sa neravninama, makar malim, i tu je kraj price, tehnolosko resenje je jednostavno tako, cista fizika tako diktira, tako je i u praksi, i gotova stvar

gotova stvar ?

opa, i fiziku pozivas u pomoc
nece bas biti, tvoja konstatacija bar sto se tice fizike i drzanja na pravcu.
a i praksa te demantuje..za ovo sto si naveo.

u krivini i neravnine, da ponekada izgubi drzanje. i isto tako brzo povrati drzanje.

btw, cisto da ne ostane pomenuto- sto se fizike tice to je jako dobro resenje, skoro idealno moguce resenje koje postoji, constant track uvek (apsolutno uvek) a sto nema uobicajeni multilink sa nezavisnim vesanjem tockova (sto ima svoj set nekih drugih ozbiljnih mana).

a da ne valja ne bi dosada bilo napravljeno i uspesno se vozi i danas desetine miliona takvih automobila sto sa RWD sto sa FWD pogonom.

jedan od ovde masovno poznatih sa zadnjom osovinom na toj bazi je VW Golf, Pasat i ostali slicni.
i Pezo je godinama koristio isti princip, sa odlicnim uspehom.
eno je i na Saabu 9000 (taj princip) kod boosta a verujem da znas kako to u praksi funkcionise.

tako da, nije bas tako jednostavno kako navodis, ta "gotova stvar".

druga je stvar kako je ceo sklop zadnjeg vesanja dinamicki podesen, i tu ima i dobrih i losih predstavnika te skole.

da ne sirimo pricu, to jednostavno resenje se dokazalo tokom decenija, rezultati su tu a i dan danas se omiljeno koristi kod mnogih fabrika sirom sveta u skoro svim klasama vozila po velicini.

nije idealno za sve uslove naravno, intezivne rupe traze vesanje ala 2CV6 ili Reno 4 sa ljuljanjem sva 4 tocka

Mekferson i pogon na tim tockovima gde je takvo vesanje je sto se fizike tice jako lose resenje, pa opet jako cesto se primenjuje decenijama.

kompromisi su nuzni na autu koji ce biti komercijalan proizvod koji neko treba da kupi.

idealno je poznato kako se dobija, a poznata je i prateca cena koja je neprihvatljiva.

[Skyline GT-R]

omogucava jako dobar "roadholding" sto je vec receno.

Ama ljudi, sta vam je to roadholding?Takav termin ne postoji.Jel mislite na handling?

kao najveca opste poznata mana je moguca neudobnost pri voznji jako losim putevima a to onda i nije bas jak argument pored svih ostalih nedaca u takvoj primeni.

.

Ne radi se o neudobnosti nego nestabilnosti!

@Hemi

Kako?

Najbolji kvalitet, najbolje performance, najbolja tehnologija.Dovoljan razlog?
Koja je najjaca auto industrija na svetu - i to pogledaj samo koliko raste svake godine.Ciji je najkvalitetniji auto (po JDM powers-u)?Kom polovnom autu najmanje pada cena svake?

A to sa V8 block-om... ...neznam ni sta si hteo da kazes.Ali..ok.kad nemas drugih argumenata...dovoljne su i dve recenice bezveze napisane.

a usput ja kao nepristrasan imam veoma povoljne "recenzije" narocito nove Corvette... inace od 0 do 175 mph joj mozda treba jedna milja ako je ubrzanje iz 5 e brzine sto mogu da potkrepim i video zapisom

Ja ti kazem sta su amerikanci testirali na jednoj pisti u Californiji.A sto se tice videa - imas u postu video - snimak kilometar sata kako ubrazava twin turbo corvetta sa 1000hp.

plus pricajmo o dizajnu japanci pre recimo 1995 izgledaju kao da ih je dizajnirala zastava

Jos i gore DA ih je zastava pravila bili bi lepsi.Stvarno su bili uzas na kraju 80-ih i pocetku 90-ih ..sem naravno par izuzetaka (i to naravno japanskih superautomobila - Nissan 300ZX, MItshubishi 3000GT, Supra, RX-7, NSX...)Sto kaze Jeremy Clarksson kad je testirao R32 - "kao da je auto napravljen za seriju Flinstons" Ali je isto tako i napomenuo da je to najbolji auto koji je on ikada vozio. Da ne pricamo o Supri.I dan danas se koristi za teske modifikacije i dere najnovije americke aute uzduz i popreko.
Da li znas da je tehnologija u tom R32 koji je napravljen 89' - i dan danas daleko daleko daleko ispred bilo kog americkog auta.O teh. u novim autima neacu ni da pricam.Ali..to je vec tema za Japansku sekciju


P.S. Sto volim kad cika brick ispise kilometarske post, a ne kaze nista (ili u najboljem slucaju kaze nesto sto moze da stane u pola prosto prosirene recenice).

Ajd' ono..gledacu da vas ne uznemiravam vise u ovom delu foruma.

Poz

[HEMI 426]

@Hemi

Kako?

Najbolji kvalitet, najbolje performance, najbolja tehnologija.Dovoljan razlog?

[Skyline GT-R]

Osim tog smeha...neki argument....





















.....Da...tako sam i mislio

[SAAB PoWeR]

@Skyline GT-R
vidis ford i GM su ti dva najveca svetska auto giganti
sto se tice kvaliteta
kupi americki auto vozi ga par godina i videces da gresis
to da nevaljaju to je samo rat izmedju ljudi ko zapnu samo za jednu marku vozila i nista drugo nevide i nista drugo nevalja
i nije sve u snazi
snaga neigra veliku ulogu u brzini
i ako motor ima 1000 konja nemora znaciti da treba leteti
svi novi sportski americki automobili su ogranicei
svi su oni jako brzi
ali su napravljeni da idu sporo
ograniceni kompjuterima i prenosom (menjacem i diferencialom)
sve se tu vrti ono novca
ako se napravi snaga a nekoristi se ,znaci motor ce da jede gorivo , sto znaci vlasti ce vise zaradjivati
noca corvette je fenomenalan auto ima apsolutno sve tako da nema japanca koi joj moze parirati

evo i tebi video

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/vids.html

ima ih vise
imas onaj jedan auto sto radi 7 sekundi na 1/4 milje a legalan na ulici i vozi se po ulici
opegla supru ko nista

[Horsepower]

kupi americki auto vozi ga par godina i videces da gresis

Sto bi bila greska? Ja sam imao 5 Americkih auta do sada (jos uvek imam 2) i nemam ni najmanji razlog da menjam to tj. nemam ni najmanji razlog da predjem na Japanska, Evropska ili Korejanska auta.

[HEMI 426]

.....Da...tako sam i mislio

@Hemi

Kako?

Najbolji kvalitet, najbolje performance, najbolja tehnologija.Dovoljan razlog?

kad si ovo napisao sigurno nisi mislio....

[SAAB PoWeR]

SAAB PoWeR je napisao:

kupi americki auto vozi ga par godina i videces da gresis



Sto bi bila greska? Ja sam imao 5 Americkih auta do sada (jos uvek imam 2) i nemam ni najmanji razlog da menjam to tj. nemam ni najmanji razlog da predjem na Japanska, Evropska ili Korejanska auta.

to je bilo upuceno Skyline GT-R

[Alekre]

@Sky
Stvarno si bre nevaspitan!
Uvek pljujes po US vozilima, a pojma nemas o istim. Svi podaci koje su Hemi i Horsepover izneli su potpuno tacni (respect).
Mislim, ko ti je kriv shto volis japance.

Sto se tice V8 motora i kubikaze, jbg nas problem zato shto vecina ne moze da ga nahrani i registruje. Mnogo, mnogo, NM sto iz nijednog japanskog rednog nece nikad da izvuce.

[starac vujadin]

Novinar Top Gear je ekskluzivno dobio priliku da provoza prototip novog Challengera na polunapustenom putu u pustinji ...Voznja je bila lagana, ali upecatljiva.

You know when you're getting close to Roy's long before you see any signs for the place. First clue is your mobile phone stops working. Then the car radio, which has been belting out the same five rock classics on any station you can find, dissolves into static.
Apart from the extensive salt flats, a massive volcanic crater and a wall of heat haze that melts the IMAX-scale scenery into a rippling curtain of colour, there's a whole lot of nothing going on out here. But it wasn't always this way.
Roy's, a fabulously weathered mid-20th-century diner, used to be the hub of the once-thriving but now deserted town of Amboy, California. In its heyday in the Sixties, Amboy, located on a forgotten limb of Route 66, had a population of over 500 and Roy's diner had a staff of more than 70 to serve all the trans-desert travellers and local hot-shots in their hopped-up pony cars.
On any given Sunday, the car park would be full of Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers and, after it debuted in '69, more than a few Challengers. They were all out here in the Mojave Desert for one purpose, to drag race their cars on the narrow, arrow-straight roads.
Local legend has it that cash - and occasionally pink ownership slips - regularly changed hands as drivers bet on who could do the fastest time between Roy's and the Roadrunner Cafe, 9.5 miles away to the east.
At that time, a 427 R/T Dodge Challenger was the car to beat. A fact celebrated by the makers of Vanishing Point, a classic existential road movie from 1971 about a washed-up race driver speeding (in both senses) wildly in his Challenger towards an early demise on Route 66.
Then, in 1972, Interstate 40 opened just a few miles north of Amboy and that was that. Traffic dried up, and soon after the town began to crumble back into the dust and sand. Two years later, thanks to new safety and emissions laws, Chrysler condemned the Challenger to a similar fate, and an era had passed.
Locals and tourists now use Roy's and Amboy (population today: one, and his name is Larry) as a stop-off on the alternative - and much more entertaining - back route to Las Vegas from Palm Springs.
Meanwhile, old Challengers, due to their relative rarity, are fetching frankly ridiculous money at the auctions. If you want a mint 1970 model today, you will need well over $100,000 to get your name on the title.
That could have been the end of the story for both Roy's and the Challenger. But today is actually a new beginning for both of them. The whole of Amboy has been bought, after being auctioned on eBay, by a local entrepreneur who intends to bring Roy's back to its former glory. And Dodge is considering producing a 21st century version of its precious pony car.
The seriousness of Dodge's intent can be measured by a) the fact that the company unveiled a $2 million major concept of the new Challenger at this year's Detroit show and, b) the unshakeable truth that I am currently sitting in the driver's seat of the thing and am about to hustle it down Route 66, past Roy's.
Before we get into the drive, let's have a look at what we have here. This Challenger concept - I say 'this' as there is only one - has been built on the LX platform that underpins the Chrysler 300C and Dodge's Charger (saloon) and Magnum (estate). The wheelbase has been shortened by 4in but, other than that, it's the same independently suspended chassis.
The engine is a 425bhp normally aspirated 6.1-litre Hemi V8 found in the hormonally overloaded, range-topping Charger SRT-8. And, because the Charger is only made as an auto, the gearbox is the six-speed manual unit from the Viper.
The arrival of the 500bhp Ford Shelby GT500 would indicate that, if the Challenger does get a green light, its engine will be more than just competitive with the big 'Stang's.
So, fun as it sounds, nothing to stop the traffic yet. Unlike the exterior. As soon as we'd unloaded the Challenger from the truck, passing drivers swerved and braked wildly as they tried to stop to get a better look.
One RV driver, towing a large boat, is going to have the insurance claim of his life. He braked so hard the boat rammed into the back of his bus. In the middle of the desert, with no other traffic in sight.
And as stupid as that was, it's not hard to see why he reacted so violently. The Challenger looks simply stunning, particularly when it's painted in its signature Hemi Orange. Yes, the design relies heavily on the original car's. But that was the intention, according to the concept's exterior designer, Micheal Castiglione.
"When we started looking at the design for this car back in '04, we did three scale models," he says. "Two of them were more futuristic and one, this one, was more classic and pure." So why did they choose this one?
"We wanted to go with the literal approach because the real enthusiasts were bummed about the Charger being a four-door with no manual six-speed. I really felt the weight of these die-hard guys on my shoulders when I was designing this car. I wanted them to say, 'What a bitchin' machine! I gotta have that car!'"
So, principally, the Challenger would be built to show the good ol' boys that Dodge still knows how to build a proper pony car. But that doesn't mean its appeal is limited only to that audience.
Everyone who saw the car on the day we drove it loved it on first sight, even the young guys in their pick-up trucks who had no idea what it was - or what a pony car should or shouldn't be. One driver, who couldn't have been more than 20, leapt from the cab of his truck and just stood in front of the car, spellbound, almost dribbling. "Shhheeeeeeeiiiit! Man! How cool is that?"
That's a discussion for later as, Bill, the Challenger's minder, is beckoning me to fire up the engine and get going. But, as keen as I am to go, I've got to tell you a bit about the interior before we do. From opening the doors to getting comfy in the heavily bolstered electrically adjusted seats, it feels amazingly well resolved in here.
The four signature Challenger dials sit in front of me, none of which is real, and the three-spoke wheel. The gearshift is an upright, pistol-grip style as per the original car's.
And all the dash plastic and switchgear looks and feels even better than production standard. The fit and finish really is extraordinary. Just wish it had aircon, as it's 110 degrees Fahrenheit outside and getting considerably hotter than that in here. At least the windows work - electrically too.
Bill is now sweating visibly, which I'm putting down to the heat, and perhaps a bit of nerves. We only met 10 minutes ago and now I'm about to drive his $2 million car across a horribly uneven gravel car park and onto a public road filled with mad rubberneckers. I try to calm him with a joke. "Funny if it wouldn't start," I say casually. "No. It would not be," says Bill. Ah, right then.
Luckily, it does - first time - and settles instantly into a classic V8 rumble, all 6.1 litres of it. Dipping the weighty clutch, first gear snicks home with a firm push and it's away we go out onto Route 66. The car roars its approval through its quad exhausts and digs in, but I can't give it much as the speed is being limited to 'about 50mph'.
With no dials to read and no corners to turn, I'm left focusing on the driving position, which feels suitably upright and comfortable with a fine, clear view over the bonnet, and the ride, which is plush. Almost too plush.
As we crest a couple of the small bridges on the road, the body brushes the tyres as the suspension sags. Bill, tensing noticeably on hearing the noise, politely asks me to take it 'real easy' over the next one. Then reminds me before and thanks me after we cross every single one thereafter...
In a record-breakingly slow time we eventually roll up at the remains of what's left of the Roadrunner Cafe. Apart from a once magnificent neon sign, all that is left is a small locked-up building and a lot of scrub. Roy's is in a bad way for sure, but the Roadrunner is almost gone. If it's going to be saved, someone had better be quick.
In another year or two you won't even know it had been there, save for the pebbles on the side of the adjacent railway track spelling out its name.
Turning the Challenger around for the journey back to Roy's, the steering - working on a pair of the 20in wheels borrowed from the Charger SRT-8 - is stiff, but not horrendously so. You can easily forget you are in a one-off concept car until you see the inert dials - and Bill sitting next to you.
As we growl back towards Roy's, the temptation to go a little faster is overwhelming, so the speed edges up. We can't tell how much, but there's no sign from the car that it in any way objects as much as the other minder who draws level with us and waves at us furiously to slow down. Which we do, but not until we've got back to Roy's and maxed our time in the Challenger.
It's hard and completely unfair to draw any conclusions about what a finished car could drive like after spending time in a one-off concept, but I saw and learned enough out in Amboy to know that it wouldn't take too much fettling to get this car properly ripping up the tarmac.
Investors use a phrase called 'proof of concept' to describe evidence that demonstrates that a business model or idea is feasible. Based on what I've experienced today, the Challenger concept doesn't need to prove any more to me. Especially if it costs under $50,000, which everyone seems to think it will.
If Dodge goes ahead and makes it, the Challenger should be ready in a couple of years from now. Strangely enough, at almost exactly the same time, Roy's is due its grand re-opening. Love to be there - in a Challenger, of course - and have a crack at that Roy's diner-to-the- Roadrunner Cafe record. Wouldn't you?

Pat Devereux