Tecnost za kocnice

[BOOST]

DOT 4 se menja svake 2 godine, max, jer rizik da zaledi ledeni cep u sistemu postoji.

DOT 5.1 (DOT 5+ ) se sipa jednom zauvek.
Sad vidi sta ti je bolje, ma ko da ti kaze.

Ja sam ovde sve svoje rekao.

Over and out

[dranix]

DeTomaso Mailing List: March 1997, Message #1

From: brockctella@juno.com (Brock C Tella)

Subject: Re: Brakes- Fluid- Dot 3,4,5???

Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 07:51:42 PST


Great info. I switched to 5.1 and have not reached a boiling condition on
the track as I did with DOT 4.

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:09:04 -0500 (EST) MikeLDrew@aol.com writes:

All,
Here is an excerpt from an article on disc brakes from the Feb '97
issue of Motorcyclist magazine. Although aimed at the biker set,
it addresses all the questions raised by Steve earlier today.

Mike (gotta love scanners!)

QUESTION: All those DOT numbers on brake fluid bottles are confusing.

What do they mean?

They sure are confusing, and it's partly because they were determined
by a federal agency (what a surprise).
Brake fluids are classified by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT)
by temperature range and viscosity. Just about the only ones you'll find
in motorcycle brake systems are DOT3, DOT4, DOT5 and DOT5.1.

DOT3 and DOT4 are polyglycol-based and can be mixed with each other.

DOT 5.1 is actually based on a different chemical, but since it can be
mixed with DOT3 and DOT4 it's lumped in with them and all three are commonly
referred to as polyglycols. DOT5.1 is also lighter in viscosity-about half
that of DOT 4 because it was designed for the rapid cycling time of ABS systems.

Now here's where the confusion comes in: DOT5 is a silicone based fluid.

Regardless of the fact that it's wedged in between DOT4 and DOT5.1,
it's chemically dissimilar to the polyglycols. It will not mix with polyglycols,
and should never be added to a system filled with polyglycol fluid.

There's an added bit of confusion for owners of some European bikes,
whose master cylinder reservoir caps say "Recommended fluid 3-5," leading
owners to believe they can use DOT3, 4 or 5. There are no silicone based fluids
in common use in Europe, however. There, the "5" designation is for a
polyglycol based fluid, which is what these bikes are designed to use.

QUESTION: In addition to the DOT number, there are also two boiling
points listed. Why two, and what do they mean?

Each DOT classification specifies two boiling points, one dry and the
other wet. A fluid's dry boiling point is the temperature at which it turns
to vapor when the fluid is fresh and uncontaminated by water. The wet boiling
point is measured when the fluid contains 3.5 % water.

Water in the brake fluid is bad because water boils at 212°F (100°C),
a very low temperature by brake standards. When the water in the brake fluid
turns to vapor, it creates minute pockets of compressible gas in the system,
reducing braking efficiency.

The dry boiling point is a useful yardstick for choosing a high quality fluid.
The higher the DOT number, the higher the dry boiling point.
But brake fluid in a brake system absorbs moisture over time and becomes
contaminated with water. The longer the fluid is in service, the more important the
wet boiling point becomes, because few street riders change their brake fluid at
the recommended intervals. In fact, tests show it only takes a couple of
years for fresh fluid in a sealed brake system to absorb enough moisture to
degrade to its wet boiling point.

QUESTION: How does water get into a sealed brake system?

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs moisture. And it does this
with a vengeance, sucking moisture out of the air in the fluid reservoir,
through the master cylinder cap gasket, past the caliper seals, even through
rubber brake hoses. Brake fluid in an opened container does the same thing,
pulling moisture out of the air at the top of the bottle. To forestall
this, some brake fluid manufacturers fill the air space in containers of fresh
fluid with nitrogen instead of air. For that reason, you should avoid using
fluid from large, previously opened containers of brake fluid. Buy it in
smaller quantities and cap the container immediately after use.

QUESTION: What are the pros and cons of siliconebased brake fluid?

Unlike polyglycols, silicone fluid designated DOT5 is not hygroscopic.
Better yet, it doesn't even mix with water. Since silicone fluid doesn't
absorb water, its wet boiling point is essentially the same as its dry
boiling point. It won't harm paint like polyglycols, either, which is
one reason it comes standard in Harleys.

Silicone brake systems can become contaminated with water, however,
even if silicone fluids can't. Moisture can enter the system through the
master cylinder vent cap, or after a pressure wash or a ride on a rainy day.
Since water is the heavier of the two fluids, it sinks to the bottom of the
system, usually ending up in the caliper. There it sits until the temperature
of the surrounding fluid reaches 212 degrees F (100°C), at which point the water boils,
forming those pesky pockets of gas that reduce braking.
Silicone fluid's only real drawback is that as it approaches its boiling
point, it becomes slightly compressible, resulting in a spongy brake feel. So
while it works well in bikes that aren't ridden very often-it was in fact
designed for use in military vehicles that sit for a long time and then have
to run on a moment's notice-it's not suitable for high performance applications.

QUESTION: Can I use racing brake fluid in my streetbike?

You can, but you shouldn't. Typically, racing brake fluid has an extremely
high dry boiling point, the better to cope with the heavy braking and high
heat build-up of racing speeds. But racing fluid also tends to be extremely
hygroscopic, much more than street fluids, and usually has a very low wet boiling point,
lower than comparable street fluids. This isn't a problem for racers, who change
brake fluid every race-sometimes even between practice and the race.
In a streetbike, however, racing fluid will rapidly degrade until it's no
better-and sometimes worse than street fluid.

QUESTION: The fluid level in my master cylinder is down, and I need
to add some. If I don't know what's in there now, how will
I know which type of fluid to add?

The recommended fluid should be indicated on the reservoir cap or in the
owner's manual. What brand of fluid is in there now, however, can be
anybody's guess. Most brake fluid manufacturers recommend against
mixing brands of fluid, because some brands contain chemicals that aren't
compatible with those in other brands.

As a general rule, you can add fluid of a higher DOT number to a lower
number, but not the other way around. Adding DOT4 to a system full of
DOT3 adds a better fluid to the existing supply. But adding DOT3 to DOT4
essentially degrades the system with a fluid of lesser capabilities.
You can also add DOT5.1 to a system containing moreviscous DOT3 or DOT4.
The difference in viscosity will quickly even out as engine vibration and
the pumping action of the brakes mix the two fluids.

But don't add anything but DOT5.1 to a system that specifies it.

DOT5.1 is used in ABS systems, and the viscosity change can affect the ABS's
operation.

Some riders top off the existing fluid with fresh, high quality fluid,
expecting to improve braking performance. But it doesn't work that way.
By adding fresh fluid to old, moisture laden fluid, you're only saving
the new fluid the trouble and time of sucking moisture past the seals.
As soon as the two mix-which they'll do very quickly-you're right back where you
started.

Before you top off your fluid reservoir, think about why you need to.

The more the brake pads wear, the more fluid from the reservoir is drawn
into the system. If the fluid level in the reservoir is down and the system
isn't leaking fluid, then the level is down because your brake pads are worn.
A low fluid level should be an early warning that your pads are reaching the
end of their useful life. Take the opportunity not only to install
new pads, but flush out all the old brake fluid with fresh fluid.

[dranix]

Stoji da je to sto je napisao Boost zakon ali procitajte i ovaj tekst. Jeste li sigurni da ste dobro razumeli engleski jezik? Kod kocnica se gresi samo jednom. Budite odgovorni prema sebi i drugima... Pozdrav svima

[sw.brick]

ja se malo raspitivao po vidjenijim radnjama u BG ali niko nema niti se seca kada je imao DOT 5.1 . izgleda da se to kod nas jos ne trazi iako imamo puno auta sa ABS sistemima.
valjda cu imati srece da naletim gde ga imaju

[Nikola]

brick, modrica proizvodi ulje dot 5.1
Tako da ga verovatno ima kod generalnog zastupnika u BG

http://www.modricaoil.co.yu/UHK.htm#tri

Sto se tice CG-a, ima Shell-ovo
Helix d.o.o. Podgorica, Balšića 75 (veleprodaja-maloprodaja)
Tel:081/210-690, 210-691, 210-692, Fax:081/210-693, mob. 069/054-272
e-mailhell@cg.yu , www.Shell-Montenegro.cg.yu

[sw.brick]

hvala, potrazicu.

[-Q-]

...

Kakvo je ELF DOT 5.1 ?

[206]

Koje god DOT 5.1 da ubacis, bice bolje, ali sad razliku izmedju marki bas neces da primetis. Sipaj

[tjuner]

Dje ima da se kupi taj DOT 5????? Skoro da niko nije ni cuo za njega.

[206]

Zato sto je DOT 5 trkacko ulje, i ne koristi se u normalnim autima. DOT 5.1 je nesto drugo, to vec moze da se nadje, recimo Mass Company radi Motul, oni imjau svoje 5.1 ulje.

[dranix]

Ne pravite zabunu pisite TACNO. 5.1 nije ni slicno 5.0 (5 u vasem tekstu).Jos nesto veoma vazno. Pise u uputstvu da je 5.1 kompatibilno (kad su gumice u pitanju) sa dot3 ili dot4 ali se isto kaze da se ta dva ulja ipak ne mesaju ! ! ! Drugim recima znaci da se prvo isprazni sistem pa da se sipa novo 5.1 i to je onda to. Nasuprot toga dot5 ili 5.0 je ulje na bazi silikonskog ulja i uglavnom se koristi u nekim motociklima i jedino je koje se potpuno razlikuje od ostalih. I dot5.1 i dot5 (5.0) se teze nalaze a ima uglavnom dot4. Ne citaju svi sve postove pa zato pisite tacno da ne dodje do zabune jer je ovde svaka greska opasna. Ja sam nailazio na ulje koje se zove 4plus i nije mi jasno kakva je tu fora. Logicno bi bilo da je to ustvari 5.1 ali pustimo tu logiku kad je i ovako zakomplikovano sa nazivima.Pitam se samo da li je taj bio normalan kad je silikonskom ulju dao broj u nizu 5 (5.0) posto vec postoje 2,3,4 sto dovodi do strasne zabune. No , sta je tu je. Pozdrav

[dranix]

206, ne bi se sto posto slozio sa tobom da je 5.0 trkacko ulje vec da je to 5.1 jer ima najvisu temperaturu kljucanja od svih a znatno je manje higroskopno nego starija slicna ulja 3 ili 4. Silikonsko 5.0 je potpuno otporno na vlagu to je tacno ali su kocnice "malo mekane" sa njim. Manite se ulja 5.0 kao da je to nesto drugo ( i jeste posebno) osim ako se izricito ne trazi to ulje zbog specificnosti kocionog sistema a trazi se sigurno za upotrebu na Harley Davidson-u za ostalo nisam bas siguran a za automobile posebno ne.

[Wiz]

5.1 ima na OMV cena oko 170d 250ml ali kad nemoze da se mesa sa dot 4 onda nema svrhe kupiti ga za dopunjavanje

[Black Knight]

Da ovde podvucem:

DOT 5 i DOT 5.1 (Dot 5+) nije ista stvar.

DOT 5 se nesipa u DOT 4 sisteme, razgriza sve gumice.!!!!

DOT 5.1 (DOT 5+) ide jako lepo u DOT 4 sistem .

DOT 4 se menja svake 2 godine, max, jer rizik da zaledi ledeni cep u sistemu postoji.

DOT 5.1 (DOT 5+ ) se sipa jednom zauvek.
Sad vidi sta ti je bolje, ma ko da ti kaze.

Ja sam ovde sve svoje rekao.

Over and out

[dranix]

Tacno tako. Wiz, kazi mi molim te koja je svrha da sipas 5.1 u 4 i da upropastis 5.1 koje je pojam kvaliteta u poredjenju sa bilo kojim predhodnim (3 ili 4 npr.).Inace, ako se ta dva izmesaju (4 i 5.1) nece stradati gumice jer su po tom pitanju kompatibilni nego nisu po pitanju temperature i higroskopnosti gde je 5.1 neuporedivo bolje. Na kraju krajeva sta smeta da se potpuno zameni staro za 5.1? Jednom i gotovo.Ionako si morao da menjas na svake 2 godine (ako si uopste) a sad jednom i vise nikada.